More reason to insist on a pre-built machine

I saw "third party component" and worried in case it meant "hardware component" - thankfully, my laptop's been vaccinated*.

Anyway, this seems appropriate:
stack.png

(Credit: https://xkcd.com/2166/ )

* pengiunated, really, as vaccine comes from vacca, meaning cow, and I run Linux rather than Hurd.
 
I have assumed from my start with computers that I would be my greatest vulnerability.
While proving myself right on this has been rather satisfying over the years...

One wonders how long such a glaring defect will be allowed to persist before some one fixes it!!??

(I'm thinking of you God!! LOL)
 
Since I've worked in IT for about 8 years now, I've seen the worst-of-the-worst with Dell's, HP's, Toshiba's and Mac.
The only company who doesn't buy the cheapest hardware is Mac.
All the rest of them skimp in so many areas to save money... as if they didn't save enough by purchasing hardware in bulk...
Their Desktops are barely expandable because of the weak Power Supplies, CPU fans and lack of ports on the Motherboards.

Those three items are the CORE of a computer. Why would you skimp on those?

I've been building my computers for years and always spend the most on the Power Supply & Motherboard. Everything else can be upgraded later on, but if you have to replace the motherboard, it could mean replacing everything else due to advances in technology. If you want to upgrade later on, new parts need additional power, so skimping on Power Supply means purchasing a better one later on.

I understand why companies use Dell and HP, its those warranties and lower costs purchasing in bulk.
 
booman said:
Since I've worked in IT for about 8 years now, I've seen the worst-of-the-worst with Dell's, HP's, Toshiba's and Mac.
The only company who doesn't buy the cheapest hardware is Mac.
All the rest of them skimp in so many areas to save money... as if they didn't save enough by purchasing hardware in bulk...
Their Desktops are barely expandable because of the weak Power Supplies, CPU fans and lack of ports on the Motherboards.

Those three items are the CORE of a computer. Why would you skimp on those?

I've been building my computers for years and always spend the most on the Power Supply & Motherboard. Everything else can be upgraded later on, but if you have to replace the motherboard, it could mean replacing everything else due to advances in technology. If you want to upgrade later on, new parts need additional power, so skimping on Power Supply means purchasing a better one later on.

I understand why companies use Dell and HP, its those warranties and lower costs purchasing in bulk.
Click to expand...


I spend plenty for power supplies too. I choose well made mainboards as well, but don't buy ones that are really good for overclocking.

Funny that Mac chooses better quality components because you often can't add RAM to their mainboards or install a larger HDD.
AFAIK, all the PC manufacturers are spending money to avoid making laws that allow consumers to work on their own gear.
 
booman said:
Since I've worked in IT for about 8 years now, I've seen the worst-of-the-worst with Dell's, HP's, Toshiba's and Mac.
The only company who doesn't buy the cheapest hardware is Mac.
All the rest of them skimp in so many areas to save money... as if they didn't save enough by purchasing hardware in bulk...
Their Desktops are barely expandable because of the weak Power Supplies, CPU fans and lack of ports on the Motherboards.

Those three items are the CORE of a computer. Why would you skimp on those?

I've been building my computers for years and always spend the most on the Power Supply & Motherboard. Everything else can be upgraded later on, but if you have to replace the motherboard, it could mean replacing everything else due to advances in technology. If you want to upgrade later on, new parts need additional power, so skimping on Power Supply means purchasing a better one later on.

I understand why companies use Dell and HP, its those warranties and lower costs purchasing in bulk.
Click to expand...

They're just providing what their big corporate customers want. They don't want upgradable computers.

They'll buy computers with say a 2 or 3 year warranty, their accounts will depreciate the value of those computers to zero at the end of that period, and then they just buy more new boxes.

They just like the predictable cost projections even if that method of buying costs a bit more than less predictable methods.
 
I'm sorry Mr corp! Did I just spit on your shoes? ":O}
I guess it's been 20 years, But I bought a Top of the Line HP, paid a mint for it and when I opened the box found a 20 pound aluminum cased hard drive with a USED sticker on it I had never ever seen a drive this old used and funky and in a new computer!!!
Oh no I just spit on your shoes again!! LOL
 
Daniel~ said:
I'm sorry Mr corp! Did I just spit on your shoes? ":O}
I guess it's been 20 years, But I bought a Top of the Line HP, paid a mint for it and when I opened the box found a 20 pound aluminum cased hard drive with a USED sticker on it I had never ever seen a drive this old used and funky and in a new computer!!!
Oh no I just spit on your shoes again!! LOL
Click to expand...

You'd think that at least they would have removed the sticker. Had an HP printer long ago, but that's it.
Twenty pounds? Sheesh, how huge was it?
 
cloasters said:
You'd think that at least they would have removed the sticker. Had an HP printer long ago, but that's it.
Twenty pounds? Sheesh, how huge was it?
Click to expand...
4 times the size of any drive
I have ever seen before or since.
I forget the female idiot's name that almost tanked HP way back when.

I mean that box was really fraudulent! I won't even buy HP cd disks.

Mind you I was use to a Dell which looked really really good in comparison.
Oh don't worry about those shoes, when I get mad I spit acid so just wipe them off with your hand!! ":O}
 
danrok said:
They're just providing what their big corporate customers want. They don't want upgradable computers.

They'll buy computers with say a 2 or 3 year warranty, their accounts will depreciate the value of those computers to zero at the end of that period, and then they just buy more new boxes.

They just like the predictable cost projections even if that method of buying costs a bit more than less predictable methods.
Click to expand...
A couple of notes:
- The corporate PC market is many times greater than the enthusiast market
- Many companies don't own their hardware, but lease it on an upgrade plan
- Businesses find it easier to manage their hardware if it's all the same - it keeps the inventory down for spares and repairs
- It doesn't take fantastic amounts of computing hardware to run office apps - system upgrades tend only to be needed when the OS changes, so my office only refreshed its hardware when moving from XP to W7, then again when moving to W10.
- Because they buy in volume, they demand volume discount. The margin on PC hardware is tiny compared with what it was in the '90s, so box assemblers like Dell will take every shortcut they can to keep their costs under control

Finally, and most importantly, none of us on this board are HP/Dell/Lenovo's target market. Enthusiasts are barely served by box assemblers - we are expected to buy components according to our needs, and take on the task of integrating and supporting these ourselves.
 
I find this all to horrible to contemplate! You mean to say that they have no personal
attachment to their hardware!? They truly are bloodless Didn't they have mothers that loved them?
 
Daniel~ said:
4 times the size of any drive
I have ever seen before or since.
I forget the female idiot's name that almost tanked HP way back when.

I mean that box was really fraudulent! I won't even buy HP cd disks.

Mind you I was use to a Dell which looked really really good in comparison.
Oh don't worry about those shoes, when I get mad I spit acid so just wipe them off with your hand!! ":O}
Click to expand...


Shazam! And you weren't hooked on HP's quality for life? Just look at how big that HDD was--they obviously loved you long time!
 
Kaitain said:
A couple of notes:
- The corporate PC market is many times greater than the enthusiast market
- Many companies don't own their hardware, but lease it on an upgrade plan
- Businesses find it easier to manage their hardware if it's all the same - it keeps the inventory down for spares and repairs
- It doesn't take fantastic amounts of computing hardware to run office apps - system upgrades tend only to be needed when the OS changes, so my office only refreshed its hardware when moving from XP to W7, then again when moving to W10.
- Because they buy in volume, they demand volume discount. The margin on PC hardware is tiny compared with what it was in the '90s, so box assemblers like Dell will take every shortcut they can to keep their costs under control

Finally, and most importantly, none of us on this board are HP/Dell/Lenovo's target market. Enthusiasts are barely served by box assemblers - we are expected to buy components according to our needs, and take on the task of integrating and supporting these ourselves.
Click to expand...


Read yesterday that W10 lies about keeping it's backup cache that remembers changes you've made to the OS updated. It tells you that you just updated---but it's a lie--W10 doesn't REALLY take note of the update. They're trying to keep backup space down, they worry that maybe 100 Mb is too much space. (corrected)

Way to go MS!
 
Last edited:
Kaitain said:
A couple of notes:
- The corporate PC market is many times greater than the enthusiast market
- Many companies don't own their hardware, but lease it on an upgrade plan
- Businesses find it easier to manage their hardware if it's all the same - it keeps the inventory down for spares and repairs
- It doesn't take fantastic amounts of computing hardware to run office apps - system upgrades tend only to be needed when the OS changes, so my office only refreshed its hardware when moving from XP to W7, then again when moving to W10.
- Because they buy in volume, they demand volume discount. The margin on PC hardware is tiny compared with what it was in the '90s, so box assemblers like Dell will take every shortcut they can to keep their costs under control

Finally, and most importantly, none of us on this board are HP/Dell/Lenovo's target market. Enthusiasts are barely served by box assemblers - we are expected to buy components according to our needs, and take on the task of integrating and supporting these ourselves.
Click to expand...

Yes, leasing is of course popular, again its the predictability of costs that appeals.
 
danrok said:
Yes, leasing is of course popular, again its the predictability of costs that appeals.
Click to expand...
So we start with leasing anemic junkers, after all if it's junk why buy?
but what happens to the boxes when the lease is up?
 
Aw shucks, we will be taxed for every breath as soon as they can build a meter for it. Wait a minute, in Crony Capitalist haven we're already taxed for everything. It's a feature, not a bug.
 
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