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My generator came today, a week early!

Discussion in 'Random Nonsense' started by Daniel~, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    We have more power outages here than most have...I think.
    In any case, we had to shift every thing out of the refer. a half dozen times last winter and twice in the summer to prevent spoiling. But that only works in low temp outages.

    We went a little over in power for our needs, but we have neighbors with whom we wish to share power.":O}

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A0TLE5U?ref_=pe_2640190_260850530_ste_e436_dp_1

    This Geny will never see a drop of gas. Gas is a really crummy gummy fuel for engines that sit a good deal of the time un-used. Another reason we went a bit large is that propane is a less energetic fuel than gasoline. But it's much lower price, clean burning as in green burning, MUCH lower maintenance, (no carburetor in need of cleaning after a long sit", no Gasoline to store on property.

    We have one of our neighbors building a small sound absorbing sound deflecting lean-to shed to protect it from the weather while running. And to protect our ears from wreaking our good times!

    Much easier to protect when not running.We will have several months of propane on hand. Patti found a great local dealer with the lowest prices around as well as the best rated service out here. So delivery on our fuel supply should be end of week or start of next.


    As it's heavy, (200lbs.) it was suppose to get here next week, it was here on Monday but I wasn't notified until yesterday that they failed to deliver.Should I complain that they failed to deliver two days ago and/or heap praise upon them for still getting it to me 6 days early anyway? Like most new parents we thought we had more time to prepare for it's inclusion into our little circle of trailers and power needs.

    Our heating and hot water, oven and range are all gas. So now when the world ends we will till be able to make everybody pop corn. We will need to ask for a slightly higher "donation" if you desire electrically popped corn rather than corn popped over a nice propane fire.

    Ok I'm ready Lord, you can pull the plug any time,... at your discretion Daniel's gone to heaven!! ":O}
    danrok likes this.
  2. danrok

    danrok Administrator Staff Member

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    Has winter fully arrived there?

    Weather is a bit odd here, like winter but warm at times. I was working outside most of the day in just a t-shirt!
  3. Kaitain

    Kaitain Member

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    Winter's definitely arrived here in the desert! Currently a positively chilly 16ºC (60ºF) with frequent rain showers. Somebody needs to remind the weather gods what the word, "desert" actually means!

    D~ - what temperature does it get down to there in winter? And how sure are you that your propane is pure propane and not "patio gas" mix?
  4. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    200 lbs, a substantial mass. Good for you, Dan! But Kaitain's burning question is new to me. What's "patio gas," please good sir?
  5. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    We were planing on getting her up and running Saturday....
    But...I kid you not, the power went out!

    So two of my neighbors who have lived a life in trailers came over and we unpacked it connected to propane, connected to my trailer in under an hour. We will be powering two trailers, perhaps three besides our own.

    Greg has been in small construction since he began, now in his 60's

    Where were living a lot of folks are off the grid, running generators of every description.
    While we worked Greg confessed to having generator envy, confirmed that I got a pretty good deal. So after 7 hours run time the power came back up and we shut her down.

    Awaiting chaos's next incursion into our power dynamic! ":O}
  6. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    Mother Nature put your new generator to the test early. I'm glad that it passed with flying colors! Now I have generator envy, yet I can't use one in my apartment living situation.

    Any idea about Kaitain's mention of "patio gas?"
  7. Kaitain

    Kaitain Member

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    Sorry, had a busy couple of days.

    I should have explained better - in the UK at least, you can get bottled propane (~99% pure), bottled butane (~99% pure) and patio gas (undefined mix of the two - should be mostly propane but not guaranteed). The latter's intended for gas barbecues, space heaters etc. Anyway, I was being a bit careless with language - the real question was, "how sure are you that your propane's all propane"?

    Reason being butane's a liquid at 32F. And liquids don't go through gas bottle regulators too well. One place I lived some time ago that wasn't supplied by mains gas was fed by a large butane tank buried under the front lawn. One particularly cold winter when the soil 3ft down got down to close to zero, we had to chuck hot water bottles on the tank to get the central heating working...
  8. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    i have a question about generators.
    I know that mine runs at 3600 RPM at all times and it runs at 60 Hrz.

    Now a car generates more power by running the engine at a higher RPM producing more horse power.

    How does a generator increase it's power out put? Ii can't run just dead out 50% full load all the time, can it? Seems much to inefficient . So if our engineering minded friends don't mind please lay this out for me.

    If RPM's are fixed how does it increase and decrease it's power out put?
  9. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Nope. So far she is just blusters and threats of things to come. We've had some rain, but the river is still down.
    Nothing even close to snow yet.

    Truth is, I can't remember ever being this excited about the weather. Sitting next to a low mountain (1700 ft.)
    river seems to condition things. The river runs fast even when low. the sense of motion even when not looking at the river pervades our little trailer camp.

    In contrast we have a dozen 2000 year old Yu trees scattered about the camp. Seemingly unchanged by the centuries. Some how they make the river seem all that much faster in passing.

    Was the river here yet when they were young?

    In summer we seem to me a bit like Mayflys hovering over pond
    The water still, then stirs and we will be gone.

    For Yu trees and river our lifespan to brief to notice.
    Were we really here or was that just a leaf spinning upon it's stem
    then falling in and overwhelmed by endless yesterdays?

    So light rain heading into tomorrow River heading into the sea.
    Yu tress awaiting the rivers return.
    Daniel excited by passing time
    stumbles upon the sublime.
  10. danrok

    danrok Administrator Staff Member

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    I believe the fuel consumption will vary according to the electrical load even though the RPM is always 3600.

    It's the same as walking uphill, you have to burn more energy to walk at the same speed you were walking at on flat ground.
  11. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    I knew that Propane has trouble when temps get to low. But I didn't realize that it only took 32F to get it to act up.

    I think I will be looking for an out door electric blanket, or maybe just set a small fire under the tank...Kidding of course, unless someone thinks t will work? ":O}

    Personally, I don't know. But here you have to have gov. certs to even fill a propane tank. Special lic. to trans port more than (I think it's 100 lbs.) of the stuff. My guess would be that if Generators are set up to run on it then it's probably regulated as an engine fuel. As I would think requirements would be quite a bit higher than for heating.

    But I'm just guessing.

    I didn't know it was 32 degrees, but I asked around last year, which was a warm year and no reported ever having any trouble. As my info was academic and spotty I wasn't able to ask specifically about below 32 usage.

    I'll check around again and see what preventives they are employing. Some of these trailers house spiritual gypsies. Several grew up in trailers and have never lived in a house without wheels...well one or two at lest.

    Thanks for reminding me that propane has it's limitations. I differently needed to know this!
  12. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm sure your right as you use exactly the same analogy I used when explaining what I didn't understand to my wife. But things got complicated for me as I used a car going up hill.

    The car must change gears and/or increase it's RPM. But My gen. doesn't have a transmission or at least I don't think it does. So I'm still not clear in my mind how this works.
  13. danrok

    danrok Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually cars can also burn more or less fuel at the same RPM, depending on load. The fuel system such as an injector or turbo varies the amount of fuel automatically.

    The load isn't really about speed, but about pushing air out of the way and going up or down hills.
  14. danrok

    danrok Administrator Staff Member

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    Your genie will probably make a different noise, e.g. louder when under load. More fuel and a bigger bang in the chamber to maintain the same RPM under more load.

    The RPM has to be a constant 3600 so as to keep the the current at 60Hz.
  15. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes manufacturer says that I should get 1 hour per gallon on propane. appox. 2 bucks per hour of use at 50 % load. people on Amazon reported up to 6 1/2 hours light use.

    Maybe I get a better picture of what's going on If I imagine a man walking at 4 miles per hour, then picture him dragging various loads. The heavier the load the more energy is burned to keep him at 4 mph .So even though the engine goes no faster it burns more energy to go the same speed.

    Some one pat me on my head and give Danrok a cookie.
  16. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Another question!! ":O}

    Why are genies rated at 50% load, why is 50% load considered a full load?

    Why would anyone make a product called Banana brittle? Why would my wife buy it?
    If you have any questions other than those place before us by me, save yourself some clicks and ask them here!!
  17. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    This sucker is a monster! It's designed to run with every plug in use all at the same time. (See picture of plug-ins posted above. My neighbor gave me an adapter that pug into on of my 120 slots. off that one 120 plug I can run everything electric I have.

    Could have gone smaller and saved on fuel. But I got this with packaging damaged for $680 tax and shipping included. A 3800 watt goes for $800.00. Then tax then shipping.

    This way we can be generous with those who have given us so much.
  18. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    You really have 2000 year old Yew trees on "your" property? Amazing!

    You need to balance all the different loads on a generator. Hope you read the manual.

    Modern cars all have alternators instead of generators. The advantage is that the voltage output remains the same at all rpm's. The disadvantage is that alternators need a small amount of "exciter" voltage to work. A completely dead battery in a car doesn't let alternators work. Whereas a generator needs no voltage in the "system" to start generating.

    I had no idea that propane becomes ?unreliable below freezing. Was 33F here during the night recently. I wonder if propane has a small percentage of water in it? If so--they got a lotta nerve!

    Then again kerosene has a little water in it. Aviation kerosene, aka Jet A has no water in it. Except that it does. You need to spray Prist, trademark registrada, into the jet fuel as you pump it into small turbine powered aircraft when the fuel can be in a freezing temperature. Dunno what they do in large aircraft.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  19. danrok

    danrok Administrator Staff Member

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    What is the recommended load for yours? 50%? That seems a bit low.

    I think that varies depending on the generator, but usually it is 90%.

    The rated load is the load that you should not exceed for long periods of time.

    You can run at maximum loads for short periods, e.g. half an hour.

    In any case, I'd say that trying to keep the load at 50% max. is probably a good idea.
  20. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    It's (I think) the way they rate gens here in America They don't give 100% load, only 50%

    SO my 7500 has a start up of 9375 (peak watts) and 7500 running watts. 7500 is it's 50% load.
    (That's using gasoline.)

    I got this info from a user question on Amazon. This answer was given by the manufacture.

    But he didn't explain why they are measure at 50% load rather that 100% load, as you have done, so many thanks. Nobody needs a burnt up genie!

    I (think) there is a limiter that prevents overloading the system.

    Champion claims I can use every input at it's maximum rated power (50% load.) I powered my entire trailer including Air conditioner off one plug and not on one of the 220s either, On one 120 plug-in.

    I'm pretty well convinced I bought more generator than I need. But no tears, I friends and neighbors who can't afford a gen. not even a small one. Besides the small 3800 at 50% load would have cost another two hundred bucks...Amazon claims that the 7500 is by far the most often sold.

    All the generators listed in America are rated at 50% power. I took a chance on buying a returned item. Only got burnt a tiny bit. It was supposed to arrive in a damaged box but completely unharmed within.. but the metal cap that covers the wiring was broken. But as all it does is cover stuff , (it's vented to keep out the rain.)It won't matter how I keep it in place. The cap is fine, slightly dented, but the screw mount that hold it broke off.

    Remember I going to be burning propane so my out put will be lower 8400 peak power and 6750 running.

    While we have frequent power outages, it's usually only a half day to 3 days to get power back up.

    Yesterday was typical, around 8 hours out..A lot of folks rely on batteries. I have two, but they only power our led lights. So we will be doing a lot of charging of neighbors batts. in general and probably supply complete power to two possibly three others.

    It kinda makes sense to me now. We rate gens by their continuous use. to assure that mark is reached and doesn't over heat in normal use they have to build in overhead, 50% in our case.

    If anyone thinks I may not quite have gotten this right,.. you have only myself to blame!
    Please do offer corrections as you feel they are needed.

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