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What is the Linux Community About?

Discussion in 'General Linux Discussion' started by booman, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    I have been reading articles and comments about the attitude of the Linux Community.
    I'm not getting a lot of positive feedback.

    Linux is a totally open source operating system... meaning FREE
    That is attractive to anyone right? FREE is always nice.

    A lot of applications are free and available for Linux distributions.
    Free programs is also very attractive.

    Now games are making an appearance in Linux and building a nice solid future for Linux Desktop and home use. What can you possible hate about Linux at this point?

    Yeah it doesn't run all of your Windows programs, but Wine/PlayOnLinux can definitely run a huge list of them. Ok, there may still be some minor driver problems here and there or you have to open the Terminal one time to manually install something or update.
    I do this stuff in Windows as well.

    We know Linux isn't for everybody because the general public is more interested in smart phones. Thats fine, but today more and more people are moving from Windows to Linux because its much easier to use.

    There has been some negative vibes out there that Linux guru's don't want the general public on Linux.
    It seems there is pride in having something different, unique and most people can't use
    Or its for techy enthusiasts and the lower 'peons' won't understand such things

    On top of that attitude are comments about non-free software should not have any part of Open Source.
    Everything in Linux is open source and should always be open source.
    This kind of view seems to think that Steam, Skype and such should not be used or even available in Linux.
    I guess its a "purist" view because for-profit programs come with disadvantages too.

    I really don't understand either view. Linux is really about what you want it to be. Its Free so anyone can use it for any reason... hence why its free.

    Linux is so flexible that you can use it as:
    • A Firewall
    • Database Server
    • Webserver
    • Gaming Desktop
    • Bit-coin server
    • Game Development
    • Graphic Design
    • Recovering other Operating Systems
    • Automate Home Systems
    • Portable Devices
    • Media Center
    • File Server
    • Reviving an Old computer
    On and on and on...
    There really isn't a limit to what Linux can do.

    So why the negative vibe in the community?

    The only negative element I can foresee from a main-stream Linux is growing threats, viruses, malware.
    Nobody knows if Linux will actually make it to the point where its the mainstream Operating System for the public. Probably never...

    But lets enjoy what we have now, use it for whatever purpose you want *cough* Games *cough* and share our success with the rest of the world.

    If developers and programmers took their Linux work and hid it, we definitely would not have the flexibility available today.

    Thank you Linux
  2. allenskd

    allenskd Active Member

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    Hey booman, long time no see! (I'm going through finals myself so I've been busy)

    I find the whole community issue to be really complicated, it's just a "why can't they act nice and reasonable?", when in reality everyone has a different idea of what GNU/Linux and open source means to them. In my opinion, Linux still has a long road on getting the desktop; Ubuntu has done an amazing job making things simple, but if you want to go beyond Ubuntu you'll see that you gotta edit configuration files for whatever random application and telling the average joe to go learn how to use the terminal and so on when he can simply use windows or OSX, install/run without going through any configuration process then you'll see why it isn't there as a desktop.

    Part of the problem (out of the many) is the labeling: If you use Ubuntu you are a noob (I'm using Kubuntu right now and happily waiting for Debian Jessie to happen), if you are using OpenSUSE you are still a noob, if you are using Arch Linux you are some sort of "magical beast" out of this world, gotta wear that bragging rights with pride. What I'm getting to is that the community itself alienates any linux user to the point that they don't consider them part of the community.

    Another part that you mentioned is the purists, they are a rather troublesome folk with a fixed mindset, good luck trying to change their mind.

    I find the whole non-oss arguments to be rather stupid. Like you mentioned, the community is trying to deprive others from using non-oss of their choosing. I use Skype on a daily basis. I use Office 365 on a daily basis and I love it. All I can hear is the same broken disc repeating "b-but closed source is bad" and so on.

    Say something bad about GNU/Linux? Oh boy, they'll call the whole mob and hunt you down. Then start the start of the same boring talk begins (drivers, open source is good, MS will kill you and your family, etc)

    I think we have touched this subject in different posts... but honestly we are just barely scratching the surface. The OSS community does have a problem, but me and you alone can't fix it, and stuff like that takes years and years to fix and there has to be WILLINGNESS to change.

    This aside, if you think about it a lot of what GNOME is doing is great in improving the ecosystem. (Even though there are some interface decisions I find stupid)
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  3. Daerandin

    Daerandin Well-Known Member

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    Hey allenskd, nice to see you posting again. I agree that there is a lot of drama going on. Personally, I don't mind and I don't care.

    I have heard the whole argument about pure OSS, but using pure OSS is limiting choice. Sure I prefer sticking with open source when avialable, but I am not going to stop using certain software just because it is closed source. I do understand a lot of the arguments coming from the purists, but I also believe people should be allowed to make closed source software. There appear to be enough room in the world for both models after all. Some distros don't include closed source software in their repositories, and I don't see any problem with that as long as they respect other distro's choice to include closed source software.

    The mentioned labeling is also something I have seen on several occasions. I usually just ignore it as an infantile need to feel better than others. Choice of distro should reflect personal preference, after all that's why there are so many distros out there. And personal preference is naturally enough quite varied.

    Personally I've never cared much for how popular Linux is, I'm happy with it and that's what matter to me. If others find it to be great too, then that's awesome.

    Even though we can't change the larger Linux community, we do have a small part of the larger Linux community right here. So what we can do is ensure that around here, we don't judge choice of distro or choice of software (open or closed). We're here to enjoy awesome games, and share our love of Linux. Let's face it, we would not be playing games on Linux if we didn't love Linux. It does require a lot more effort than gaming on Windows.
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  4. allenskd

    allenskd Active Member

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    Yea, the drama is too loud this time. I think we left out attacks on OSS developers from individuals that aren't happy with the situation, and it's implied that if you attack devs "it's to have better things, therefore it must be done." (What type of BS is this? huh)

    I don't care much about the drama currently going on... honestly, life is keeping me busy to worry about stuff like that. If it was a game changer like "KDE is planning to do a full revamp like GNOME" I would be worried but not enough to get into senseless drama.

    That said, I hope you guys are doing peachy. Me? I decided to stop working on Jester because it wasn't the solution I wanted to provide in the end (I guess I'll write about that in my blog, it's mostly regarding end-users). I'll just upload the remaining source on github and leave it there.
  5. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    Thanks for your input guys!
    I don't understand the drama either... but isn't that just like human nature? Create communities and fight amongst ourselves?
    I know the Pride and Tension will always exist because people tend to look down on others.

    I try to see people as equal and Linux distro's as unequal.
    What it really comes down to is the noobs
    That is what all of my efforts are about. Help the new people learn to convert to Linux from Windows.
    Games are always a major factor in desktop needs because they always push computers to their limits.

    My main concern is these trivial conflicts in the community will "turn off" the new people.
    Noobs need help not criticism about the distro the choose.

    That "noob" might be a better auto mechanic than you, or a better artist than you or a better musician than you
    So why all the criticism?

    But this is a natural effect of communities without any structure or leadership
    I love our community and will continue serving Linux noobs regardless of any criticism.
    We were all noobs at one point, lets help them by teaching them what we learned
    :cool:
  6. allenskd

    allenskd Active Member

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    Like @Daerandin said, we can improve things on this community and make it a better place. We are open-minded individuals--so far--and I'm sure people who are tired of the silly issues will find this place cozy.
  7. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    i hope so
    That is my long term goal... I'm really here to help
    I could have just learned how to play my games and keep it to myself, but what good is that to everyone else?

    I know we can't stop trolls and critics, but the way we respond is very important.
    The sad fact is... it only takes one person to bring a whole community down.

    Thanks for the encouragement guys, you all ROCK!
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  8. ThunderRd

    ThunderRd Irreverent Query Chairman Staff Member

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    This is exactly why I'd love to see our IRC channel get busy. There is something about real-time chat that lends itself to community, and the good distros have discovered that.
  9. Aryvandaar

    Aryvandaar Active Member

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    The bad attitude in the Linux community isn't very widespread, it's just that the bad turds are most often heard. There are plenty of Linux communities that are very friendly. Personally I have very good experience with the OpenSUSE and Manjaro communities, and I'm sure that other people here can speak warmly of other Linux communities.

    Linux is seen like the big bad wolf, if it's ever acknowledged by the mainstream, and this is what the media mainstream plays on. Honestly, I don't mind much, because it keeps certain people away who are not able to come to their own conclusions, based on their experience.

    Just because I use Linux doesn't mean that I'm accountable to what other Linux users do or say, but a lot of people have problems seperating people from any group they might belong to.
  10. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    I also think it is our human curiosity that loves controversy. Media loves controversy because we love hearing about it.
    So one guy that trolls and harasses gets all the attention.

    I know Windows and Mac has its controversies as well. Its something we all have to live with.
    I'm not going to walk away from Linux just because "some people" give it a bad name.
    I'm not going to walk away because of a few single events when a conflict arose.

    I'm sticking with Linux because I love what it does for me. Then I share it with the world. Obviously nobody has to care how I use Linux, but it seems somebody does.

    Specially since I'm using Linux for games.
    Nothing to troll about there... just lots of success!
  11. allenskd

    allenskd Active Member

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    I'm sticking with Linux because I love what it does for me

    Hear hear! This is pretty much me. I love linux because I can do so many awesome things with it in the terminal whereas I feel super limited in windows, there's nothing interesting to do. I spent so much time reading Pulseaudio stuff and I didn't mind, it was fun and I shared whatever I found with the people.

    I'm having linux withdrawals man... I miss my kubuntu partition.
  12. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    Dude, reboot and play!

    These days I can't imagine not using Linux at least once a day.
    Every time I try a game with my Wife and kids, I always try it in Linux first.
    I'm even becoming quite the GIMP guru as well. Finally putting Photoshop behind me.
    Did a few print projects for Church and only used GIMP. Quite proud of meself. :cool:
  13. allenskd

    allenskd Active Member

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    Quite awesome to hear that! You know I've been using GIMP for years and photoshop looks super alien to me. I get lost in PS interface, in GIMP I just know the hotkeys :D it really helps a lot!

    I play on windows so I'm not missing much on the gaming part. I'm not that happy being on windows but you know, business first.
  14. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    The only way I could use Linux at work would be using Remmina to remote into our server so I could use our software.
    Otherwise, hardly anything would run. I work at a newspaper and all their software is super old. ODBC, Sybase, proprietary software... none of it will run on Linux.
  15. allenskd

    allenskd Active Member

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    You know what, you are right. I should just log in to Ubuntu and keep the love flowing. I don't mind using windows, it just that part of me doesn't want to use it. I don't know where I'm going to wind up; I'd rather to closed source applications for Linux that helps growing it as a desktop than develop for Windows.
  16. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    I wouldn't hurt ;)
    The worst that can happen is you can learn something new.

    My plan is to eventually weed-out all of my Windows and be 100% Linux. I don't know how long that will take, but sacrifices will have to be made. There are some games I won't be able to play, and some program I won't be able to use.
    But how is that any different than Mac? At least I won't have to spend that extra $100 on Windows when I build a new computer.
  17. allenskd

    allenskd Active Member

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    Well, in a way I think the "linux is free, everything is free therefore it's automatically better" mind is really hurting a lot of small developers that want to make it out there. It makes it hard to develop commercial stuff because everyone expect things for free. I'd imagine they would start saying "you should open source your software", and so on. I know some of the business models falls into the same categories (pay for support, plug-in development, customization, etc). That's beyond the point though.
  18. booman

    booman Grand High Exalted Mystic Emperor of Linux Gaming Staff Member

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    I don't know why anyone would expect everything in Linux to be free?
    I know Linux has a lot of free programs and is free its-self...
    But money makes the world go around.

    I am more than happy to use free programs and games. I have no problem with that (raising a family is no easy job)...
    But I have happily backed a few games on Kickstarter and pay for many games on Steam.

    Companies that provide open source development will happily take donations.
    Anyone that feels "everything needs to be open source and free" should be making donations so it will stay free.

    We really don't value programmers and developers as we should.
    The funny thing about the gaming industry is the characters get the "spotlight"
    They aren't even real!

    Just like the movie industry, actors get the attention and the "big bucks" but when do we ever give special attention to the directors, cinematographers and costume designers?

    Sadly, programmers and developers are totally aware of this.
    I know they don't work for the "spotlight" but maybe we should have a "Programmers Day" to celebrate their hard work?

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