Dan and George's Republican thread

[Kaitain]

Unfortunately, whether the Democrats or the Republicans win, we are still in for a shitshow; the only questions are how much and for how long.

... and what will be the final outcome.

One of the more worrying things I see on the news, on social media, and on just general internet, is just how deeply rooted Trump's cult of personality is within sections of society, with the sheer number of people lauding Trump even while his mismanagement of your once-great nation hurts them. Regardless whether you manage to vote down Trump's power, even if he leaves office in good order in 2029, even if his failing health catches up with him before that, Trumpism won't go away.

I've yet to see the emergence of, and am no longer sure America is capable of producing, a true reformer, with the equanimity, integrity, and authority to bring the USA back to its moral centre and heal the rifts created by decades of corruption, complacency, and cronyism. (To be fair, this is a common failure across almost the entire "West").

Outside the US, the emotions expressed in Mark Carney's speech to the WEF are still resonating.

Looks like we get to live in interesting times, after all...

 

[Gizmo]

There is a certain amount of this that can be written off as the great 'last gasp' of a generation that has had an outsized influence on our politics for 40+ years, simply because of the size of the generation. The Baby Boomers are the largest generation IN HISTORY. That gives them an outsized influence in culture and politics, and they have used that outsized influence to sculpture society to their whims. Now that they are approaching the end of their lives, they are once again forcing society to assume the shape they desire in order to protect themselves, just as they have always done.

To some extent, I can't even blame them for it, when viewed in that light.

Doesn't make it any less painful for the rest of us, though.

That being said, there is a significant portion of our society that feels 'left out', betrayed, and disaffected. I know, because I'm one of them.

The fact is that we have failed a substantial portion of our citizenry, due in no small part to the policies enacted by the Baby Boomers (and let's be honest, GenX, though our influence is almost a rounding error by comparison). That failure is starting to come home to roost in a big way, and things are going to get very nasty until we acknowledge that failure and move to redress it.

So, the big question: can we fix it?

Sure. It just takes the desire to do so.

Will we?

Ah, that's the $64 question, isn't it? I continue to have an abiding faith in the basic good sense of the American people, but for sure we are in for a rocky few years (probably a decade?).

One thing is certain, the United State of America will never be what it once was.

Hopefully, it will be something even better. Not sure if I will live to see that, though. For sure, it isn't on the correct path at the moment, but maybe we are starting to see the change? Tuesday will see. I have no great love for the Democrat party, but the Republicans have lost their damned minds. For people who claim to be Christians, I see very little I believe Christ would want associated with His name, and a great deal that I believe He would be flat out horrified by.

 

[Kaitain]

There is a certain amount of this that can be written off as the great 'last gasp' of a generation that has had an outsized influence on our politics for 40+ years, simply because of the size of the generation. The Baby Boomers are the largest generation IN HISTORY. That gives them an outsized influence in culture and politics, and they have used that outsized influence to sculpture society to their whims. Now that they are approaching the end of their lives, they are once again forcing society to assume the shape they desire in order to protect themselves, just as they have always done.

To some extent, I can't even blame them for it, when viewed in that light.

The seeds of this were planted a long time ago. In 1987, Margaret Thatcher proudly stated that "there is no such thing as society" quietly ignoring the fact that, without society, there is no compromise, no tolerance, no compassion and no trust.
But even before them, one Richard Nixon made it his political mission to reverse the circumstances that were reducing inequality to the extent that, through capitalism, the USA might achieve an equal society. His policies reversed that convergence and ensured that the Haves will always have more than the Have Nots.

Nixon, btw, was from the "greatest generation" and not a boomer.

One of the few lessons my parents taught me that I actually agreed with was always to vote for the person that will put pounds in your pocket. A vote is always a selfish act, and democratic government is the collective selfishness of the people. The Boomers, and a decent chunk of Gen X, are decidedly selfish people.

"I've earned it, I'll spend it myself, **** the rest of you."

That being said, there is a significant portion of our society that feels 'left out', betrayed, and disaffected. I know, because I'm one of them.

Would you be willing to elaborate on this point a little?

So, the big question: can we fix it?

Sure. It just takes the desire to do so.

Will we?

Ah, that's the $64 question, isn't it? I continue to have an abiding faith in the basic good sense of the American people, but for sure we are in for a rocky few years (probably a decade?).

Overseas, we've somewhat lost that faith. I do see this as the beginning of the end of American hegemony... and more's the pity, for as much as I'd never want to live there, I'm grateful for the gravity it has provided for the last 80 years.

One thing is certain, the United State of America will never be what it once was.

I fear Trump has not only pulled up the roots of American society, but also poisoned the ground from whence it came.

Hopefully, it will be something even better. Not sure if I will live to see that, though. For sure, it isn't on the correct path at the moment, but maybe we are starting to see the change? Tuesday will see. I have no great love for the Democrat party, but the Republicans have lost their damned minds. For people who claim to be Christians, I see very little I believe Christ would want associated with His name, and a great deal that I believe He would be flat out horrified by.

Performative Christianity is the worst....

It's also really a shame that there are no credible third or fourth parties in the US. Nothing keeps a party on track like a credible challenger for the same political space.

 

[Gizmo]

Nixon, btw, was from the "greatest generation" and not a boomer.

Likewise with Reagan and George Bush the Elder. But in all three cases, they were elevated to power in large part by the Baby Boomers. Bush the Elder received a bit of help from GenX, to be sure, but again, the size of Genx compared to the rest of the population (and particularly the Boomers) makes us a minor political force.

One of the few lessons my parents taught me that I actually agreed with was always to vote for the person that will put pounds in your pocket. A vote is always a selfish act, and democratic government is the collective selfishness of the people. The Boomers, and a decent chunk of Gen X, are decidedly selfish people.

"I've earned it, I'll spend it myself, **** the rest of you."

Also expressed as "F**k you, I got mine". I'm not pretending that GenX are virtuous to a fault; we are just as guilty as anyone else. It's just that OUR ability to contribute to the problem is relatively small given our generational size, and a significant portion of GenX seems to be more on the "F**k off and leave me alone" train than actively trying to change society (at least in my experience).

Would you be willing to elaborate on this point a little?

Are you asking specifically about me, or about what I see around me?

For myself, where to start? The Republicans have been promising a health-care program since the 90s, when the Clintons first started pushing hard for it. Then Obama finally managed to push through the abomination that is the ACA. It was arguably terrible, but it was at least SOMETHING, and the Republicans immediately started campaigning to repeal it and replace it with something better "if only you'll put us back in power".

Or what about the fact that there's not a Republican congresscritter ALIVE who doesn't think corporations are absolutely awesome, despite DAILY demonstrations of how they are ripping the beating economic heart out of our country?

Or what about the fact that the Republicans even ELECTED Trump, much less TWICE?!

Or what about continual tax cuts that never produce the promised prosperity, but only cause more suffering for all but the wealthiest?

The Democrats are no saints to be sure, and they have no more desire to lose their power than do the Republicans, but they at least PRETEND to care .

Overseas, we've somewhat lost that faith. I do see this as the beginning of the end of American hegemony... and more's the pity, for as much as I'd never want to live there, I'm grateful for the gravity it has provided for the last 80 years.

From your perspective overseas, I can completely understand why you would have lost faith. Tumultuous times do that. As I said, I believe that we will rise again from the ashes, stronger than we were before. I believe part of that strength will come from us working with the other developed economies of the world as partners and equals, rather than the hegemonic but occasionally benevolent empire that we have been. Europe in particular has been under our thumb for too long, IMO.