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Mars verses anstroid belt.

Discussion in 'Random Nonsense' started by Daniel~, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Everyone wants to go to Mars...Why?

    Best case , Mars is truly dead. Worst case Mars lives.

    If we go anywhere but home (in terms of living planets) We are going to die.

    Have you seen what happens to the unwary in the Amazon?
    Mind you the Amazon is our HOME planet.

    And it's got sixty million ways to kill us. Big Green men we might be able to cope with.

    Teny tiny green men will have us for lunch!

    I have yet to hear any of the "Lets go to Mars crowd" explain how we could possibly cope with a
    A living planet not our own.

    H.G. Wells brought this up rather early in his novel "War of the worlds."

    Mars kicks our asses. The Earth's Microbes kicks Mars's ass.

    On our planet and by extension any living planet has spent several billion years honing her defenses, If you aren't a part of that defense system your dead meat.

    Think Amazon.

    Just a guess but where planets are concerned I think it's a "If you weren't born here your lunch!
    And that can be said to be the good outcome.

    The bad one? That's where we find paradise and our bad breath wipes it out in no time.

    A religious person might speculate that God put all that distance between us and the next planet for a reason. He may have wanted us to go on living.

    So unless your very very religious and think all planets that live, live in exactly the same way...best to stay home.

    But we're bored with Earth! We want new worlds!!

    Then do the sensible thing and make them!

    Find a nice high end Asteroid belt! It has far less chance of killing us with microbes, still a chance, but far less.

    We wouldn't have to mine as we do on Earth or would have to on Mars.

    Mars like most planets has weather, a climate of sorts.It's so much like our own that bit will kill us in under three minutes.

    Who needs Mars's storms? It rather quite out in the Asteroid belt where you can scoop up just about any kinda rock you value.

    sure space is a hazardous environment, but it's a stable one, Mars is not.

    What ever can be found on Mars can be found in space as a general assumption.

    Do we really believe that we can inhabit Mars, supply those we put there with regular missions and never send back a single plague? Never start a plague on Mars.

    Then we are just being silly.

    What dose Mars offer us that an Asteroid belt and a very large as in the the size of small state in America colony ship? This IS a much better plan.

    1. No microbes
    2 No weather or storms.
    3. An abundance of resources just floating about waiting for us to turn it into habitat,
    4. Constant solar power.
    5. we would have to overcome only our own gravity to come and go.
    6.Far less chance of contamination.
    7.If the Big One is headed straight for us...we can move.
    8. If things go wrong when coming and going there's good chance we would just float about rather than crashing into Mars or Earth.
    9.We would not have to face the wrath of aliens and their ray guns.
    10. Cotton Candy in space is bound to be more fun that K rations on mars.

    I got stuck on- 9 and 10

    11. Space is near infinite, we will never run out of it. No rent to pay. and we have a near infinite Dump for all our garbage, just mail it to the Sun and forget about.

    12. We can be in Earth Orbit one day and in Alpha Sentory orbit in 125 light years
    I mention this to point out that at least for now.."In space there is no where for us to go."

    13 space is the destination. Planets are dangerous and unmanageable, doing whatever they please.
    14 space has no agenda. few rules to learn,no competing goals. A living planet has tens of thousands, nay millions of competing goals.

    So please let's stop kidding ourselves. This is no planet just awaiting our arrival.

    There is no lving planet that we would not have to annihilate every thing that lives there for us to live there. Then what would be the point of living there?

    I think all of this falls under the category of "Things you can tell just by looking. ":O}
    So why isn't anyone but me looking? ":O}
  2. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    I don't disagree. Not completely. I think you're just a few centuries ahead of your time.

    First thing to remember is that space is vast. And empty. The "asteroid belt" is not a crowded region of rocks bumping into each other, like in the cartoons and low-budget movies, but, well, empty. With a rock every few hundred million kilometres. You read that right - few hundred million kilometres.

    Second thing to remember is that we humans will need a few things with us if we're to survive:
    - food
    - water
    - energy
    - protection from radiation
    - gases
    - over long periods, and especially if we plan to procreate, gravity will be essential as well, if baby is ever to survive birth.

    Notwithstanding those, we also have psychological conditions to deal with - humans in close quarters with no horizon to stare at and no company other than colleagues to look at do rather have the tendency to go insane. It's why NASA spends ages on psych evaluations for space station astronauts, and why being a submariner is usually a fast ticket to the loony-bin.

    All of this brings us back to the simple realisation that our current level of technology won't cut it. We need to put down roots on a body that supplies gravity and surface area that we can spread across to grow food, water and other gases that can supply us with our desired N2/O2 atmosphere indefinitely. We need to be close enough to the sun for solar power to be a possibility, or willing to take radioactive sources with us on our journey.

    The final problem with a "straight to asteroid" path is that we're currently stuck on Earth, with its enormous gravity well, and only chemical reaction rockets to loft everything we need into space. 94% of the launchpad mass of the rocket doesn't go to space. We will need to send a lot of these tiny payloads to get a colony, a mine, a foundry, and a small shipyard operating on somewhere like the Moon which, with its gravity being roughly 1/6 the Earth's, is significantly cheaper to launch from. Then we can send prospectors to asteroids to obtain resources and accelerate the process.

    Move ahead in time and you could start thinking of space stations built using rotational gravity - think Babylon 5. The proofs of concept don't have to be huge - play with this, for an idea of how small you could make one: https://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/

    So yes, we don't need planets...

    ... after the first few.
  3. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    Some wealthy people's attitude is that we're gonna kill the Earth, so let's move our rich selves to Mars. Thank God it will never work. It's very likely that we will kill off all life on our own planet. And sooner than many think. Spreading our pathetic, puny selves to beyond our own planet gives harebrained fools the idea that "we can despoil all forever! Long and far will we chosen ones spread our angelic selves!"

    Break it, you own it. That means everybody dies, and that is fitting for such an ass**le race of creatures. Too bad we are so cruel and thoughtless as to kill all forms of life along with us.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  4. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    In space no one can hear scream "here comes another dust storm"

    Ok I admit it I had always assumed a goody supply of rocks....

    Daniel's modest proposal:

    We simply use our UN-used and trouble some supply of Terra forming Nucks.
    To chip off a small, say 5% part of the moon and blast it into space where Daniel Inc. will be ready
    With my newly fabricated space net.

    I say use the moon! Except for offering protection to a few billion stragglers back on Earth from a sudden and completely unforeseen ( Hey I told them where my net would be and they completely ignored me) increase of
    space/moon rock entering the So called atmosphere of Earth.

    But would it be such a bad thing if say 5 % of the moon collided with the Earth?
    We might easily see a huge increase in available space rock!!
    The best part would be that those rocks would pretty much launch themselves into space.
    (With a bit of help fro the moon of course.)

    Once the scarcity of space rock is solved and it could be done in a flash

    and DAMN! All we have to do then is stack the rocks in to walls and use solar panels for a roof.

    So you see Kaitain as I have just demonstrated, thou there will be difficulties, with a little patience and careful planning, by putting the resources of Earth to a better and higher use in space we can completely free our selves of the burden we've been strapped with from the beginning...

    Namely how can we get the Earth into space where it can become productive at long last!

    I can see us now! Safe behind our moon rock walls, leaning out our open windows and looking down and laughing at the folks on mars for trying to sell us mars dust for use as calking. When we can get moon dust for free!!
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  5. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    No matter what we do, we will not manage to exterminate all life on Earth, even if we manage to wreck the biosphere that we need to keep humans alive. We might wipe out many species of plant, animal and insect, but there are plenty of other species that do very well out of us, and others that don't really notice we're there.

    There are extremophiles that live in exotic environments completely decoupled from the rest of the planet - sulphur-rich hot water vents in the deep ocean, or in deep rock formations, or highly saline, acidic or otherwise toxic environments. We won't exterminate all of that, and life will evolve into the niches left vacant by the species we do destroy.

    Anyway, a strong argument in favour of space station/artificial environment expansion is that we get to spread our merry genes across the universe, without wrecking another biosphere to do it.

    So long as you understand that your proposal would perform the most comprehensive destruction of both the Earth and the Moon it's possible to have before the Sun enters its red giant phase, then go ahead.

    If 5% of the moon were to leave, Space 1999 style, the rest would be grossly destabilised. Depending on which bit of moon and how explosively, we might be faced with the moon itself colliding with Earth, in which case it's game-over Earthlings, or it spins off into space, which will destabilise Earth's rotation and orbit resulting in game-over Earthlings.

    Even if you managed a gentle separation of 5% of the moon, the results on Earth wouldn't be wonderful.

    Not even we oil industry sorts could comprehend destruction on such a scale! For that, I salute you ;)
  6. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Progresses has a price! look I'm taking care of the net remember ? detonations is an entirely different department. I just wanted to run this you guys before I got started.

    Now that were all on the same page, munitions have been set and the U.N. has confirmed that nobody owns the moon, which to me means it's up for grabs, all we really have to do is liquidate any stocks that might be adversely affected by the loss of the moon..mind you all of Kaitains observations/objections while well intended are theoretical there's at lest one in a thousand change the Earth would be completely unaffected.

    As far as I know science is undecided and divided on weather humans actually ever needed a planet!
    We may have just been on va ca and broke down, unable to return to our 500 miles across space ship.

    That's probably where we got the idea of building the moon. That the moon is useless reflects the 700 year temper fit humanity's been throwing. I think unconsciously we've been killing off species to lighten the planet so it can float us back to our REAL home.

    Anyway it's set to go off on Valentines day...isn't that sweet!

    I trust you've all made arrangements to be elsewhere.

    As a side note, I'd be willing to bet 50 cents that I'm right and Kaitains wrong. If I'm right Kaitin won't be able to show his face any where on the planet! If he can find his face and someone to look at it!

    I would, but I have a prior engagement with a man about moon rocks and their price per mega ton.
    No way I'm going I'm selling under 5 cents per thousand megaton just because the markets are drowning under them. The market will dig itself out
    of this temporary and extremely sudden moon inflation.

    Then it will be blue skys ahead and nothing to slow us down!
    Good news! I screwed the guy at 7 cents a mega ton!

    Were going to be rich!!!
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  7. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    Oh Dan--you've done it again! Spoken akin to Mr Magoo's often spoken line. Glad I'm not the solo wacko on Earth!
  8. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    That we can't destroy all life on Earth isn't an endorsement of our guiding principle: "Let's turn it into cash!" For instance, we are busy flushing Canada's Boreal Forest down our American toilets. USA! USA! USA! Sorry, I fell out of love for my native country long ago.
  9. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Your going to stay! Look what I said was just to keep the nobodies complacent!
    You simply can't stay here!!

    Oh! Now i get it! you looking to lock up salvage rights. OK by me! most of the moon and all that remains of the Earth will be up for grabs! But touch one tiny bit of my 5% and you will spend the rest of your life in court!

    To quote the great orator and states men of New York

    "What I'm going to do to you will be disgusting."

    I wonder if that guy still available?

    Try to stay within the limits that proper detonation has set for us.

    1. Nothing more than 100,000 miles out can still be considered a part of the earth! It's orbital junk or as I have suggested building material.
    2. Despite the absence of any reliable records you will still be required to make any mortgage payments we assert you still owe.

    Payments in earth rock found less than a 100,000 miles out will be accepted at steep discounts as they are no longer connected to the Earth.

    You know...maybe that Kaitain fellow had a point, to bad he didn't speak up sooner!! I could have got him some very favorable terms, something nice along the old equator or perhaps even something along the new equator.

    A little something to remind him that silence can be golden.

    I'll soon be offering a one thousandth of one percent of my 5% to the first guy or gal that can design a proper space ship
    with plenty of space inside and out and with air on the inside and pretty much lots of death on the outside.

    That's why the apartments on the rim are so expensive! You can practically touch parts of Earth floating by,
    some seem to be having trouble breathing, but that will quickly pass!

    At last we will have ended slavery!!
    Kinda hard to accept the loss of so many slavers, but you can, if properly situated on the rim, almost touch them as they float by.

    So much exciting history at last available for public viewing! Once I saw George Wallace blowing kisses to Mini Mouse as she fled him. She didn't have a chance, she just makes Wallace see black!! I choose to see only the white bits around her eyes.

    My point is we don't have to lose our past just because we blow up our present!
    God in his wisdom gave man leggo's to prepare him for this!
    People have been building Leggo houses and Leggo rocket ships for as long as we have had leggos
    (If I spelled Leggos wrong it's to avoid patent infringement.)

    Hey if three of us survive we can still have divisive politics!
    if we have four, we can plot insurrection and
    With five we get a gay community.!

    As I have tried to show it's just silly to fear the future when the present is just stuff full of terrifying reality.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  10. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    "As I have tried to show it's just silly to fear the future when the present is just stuff full of terrifying reality."

    Sone a gone, you got that right bruddah!

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