1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AMD really is the cat's meow

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by cloasters, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48
  2. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    Well well, it should be entertaining watching fat old Intel puffing around the track trying to catch up.

    But I won't be to surprised if they aren't holding something back to meet this contingency...

    If not expect a shake up in Intel's management I mean all things considered this should have never happened....

    Well done great to see you fight your way out of the corner AMD
  3. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48

    New core security problems with Intel's processors are found like clockwork. They refuse to address these security holes. Not good in my book, as small as that is.
  4. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    Elephants look slow and lazy...until they start their run.
    Not one of Intel' holes leaks or other missteps have ever affected me personally.

    So I leave complaints to those who have been affected.

    Intel gave me a 4.8 chip for the price of a 3.4 chip.

    So I don't get to unhappy about reported chip errors that don't affect me.

    How about others?
    Has anyone here been personally affected by an Intel goof?
    Or an AMD goof for that matter?
  5. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48


    I'm not sure if any of the core vulnerabilities would be seen by their user.
  6. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    I just have to ask you then, why do we care? Is it really a flaw if it doesn't effect us?
    Sure I like perfect in theory, but I've never even seen a perfect theory. ":O}
  7. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48

    'Cause Intel is a monster of a company that has a cavalier attitude toward it users. If it doesn't bother you that's fine.
  8. Gizmo

    Gizmo Chief Site Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Webb City, Missouri
    Home page:
    Many of the flaws that have been outed in Intel's processors aren't terribly likely (YET) to be exploited on an end-user's machine, but you better believe the Bad Guys are busy hacking away at servers, like the one GOL runs on.

    That being said, you posit a reasonable question. At this point, all of our personal data has already been leaked to the Bad Guys multiple times, so the effective result probably is 'meh'. People running servers still have a vested interest in the issue, but the average user? Probably not so much.


    Actually, no they didn't. They gave you a 4.8 priced equivalent to the price of an artificially inflated 3.4 chip.

    Does that matter? That really depends. Were you happy with the deal you got at the time? Or did you feel like you were being squeezed for every penny they could get? To some extent, this is rather like buying a car, and discovering a week later that your buddy got a better deal than you did. If you were happy at the time, does it really matter? (Except possibly as 'lesson learned')

    Honestly, it's only been since about 2016 that I've felt Intel have been screwing us significantly. Prior to that, they were definitely charging a premium, but I don't really feel they were being abusive (just my personal thoughts here).
  9. Gizmo

    Gizmo Chief Site Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Webb City, Missouri
    Home page:
    IMO, AMD's only behaving better because they HAVE to be.

    Publicly traded corporations are psychopathic by nature; they'll do whatever they think they can get away with. The best you can hope for is that they provide a benefit 'on balance'. The goal, and the whole point of competition, is to create an environment that urges corporations to do things that benefit the rest of us as well.
  10. Gizmo

    Gizmo Chief Site Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Webb City, Missouri
    Home page:
    Intel haven't got anything generally competitive with AMD for the next couple of years. They are quietly admitting that themselves. Publicly they put on a brave face and talk about 'real world benchmarks' and 'synergies with partners', but privately they're in a deep hole and they know it.

    HOWEVER, the people saying that Intel are 'down for the count' are complete and utter idiots. Intel STILL is not able to meet demand for their chips. All AMD really is doing is picking up the portion of the market that Intel hasn't been able to service, and nibbling a bit at Intel's market share. Intel are FAR from being seriously wounded.

    Consider this: Intel spends right at the same amount for R&D as AMD receives in GROSS REVENUE!

    That's right, Intel's R&D budget ALONE is equivalent to every cent that AMD generates in income (not just AMD's profit, but total income).

    Intel have been stung, but they have the resources to throw at solving the problem, and anyone who doesn't think they will is IMO a moron.

    The real question here is whether AMD will be able to continue to innovate and keep Intel at bay. Lisa Su has done a truly remarkable job getting AMD focused and competitive, but they are still far from being safe.
  11. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    Which is why I said I felt heads should roll at Intel corp.How did they let this happen??
  12. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48
    It's perhaps the same sickness that may destroy Boeing? Frankly Boeing deserves to die, imho. Such greed above all else and lie, lie, lie to the FAA and your customers policy while murdering passengers deserves severe punishment.

    Intel is far less drunk on greed than is Boeing, but refusing to even try to fix what can become deadly flaws in the cores of their CPU's is bad policy. Should not they be punished as well? imho, of course.
  13. Gizmo

    Gizmo Chief Site Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Webb City, Missouri
    Home page:
    I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be punished. I'm suggesting they AREN'T being punished. I'm also suggesting that, given the chance, AMD would do the same thing.

    Look, Intel are still selling chips as fast as they can make them. They aren't going to change their behavior until it hits them in the pocketbook, and the average investor doesn't understand tech well enough to understand why they shouldn't be driving up Intel's stock prices. In addition, AMD, even now, have such a 'bargain basement' reputation that they are going to have to be stable for at least another year before people start taking them seriously, by which time Intel will be solidly on the road to recovery.

    That sux, but it is reality.
  14. Gizmo

    Gizmo Chief Site Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Webb City, Missouri
    Home page:
    Heads DID roll. Why else do you think Intel quietly got rid of Brian Krzanich as the CEO? They claimed it was over some indiscreet affair with an intern or some such, but the fact is he was pushed out because of the disaster of 10nm manufacturing, followed by the disaster of the security flaws. AMD hadn't yet revealed the true capability of Zen at that point, but Intel knew it was coming and would at least make AMD competitive again.
  15. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    Nice to know it wasn't just a mad lust to see Intel blood that inspired my post! LOL
    Thanks Gizmo you always tell me what I need to know.

    George we (you and I) have been here together in the past.

    Corporations are all acted upon by the same forces, primarily human greed and basic dishonesty.
    Ideals are not on the menu, Ideals require sacrifice.Corporations loath the very concept of sacrifice.

    In a sacrificial; world they would go broke in an hour. As Gizmo points out Intel wasn't doing me any favors.
    They were just giving me the lest they could get away with and still sell me a Chip.

    It would be unfair (now there's a concept!) to ask any more of AMD than we get from Intel when it comes
    to moral action. The moral is not their sphere of activity. Legality rules their world..

    Which is not to sy they follow law. They merely create laws that favor corporate illegality.

    The very foundation of corporate life is the idea that there are no villains or heroes. just a bottom line

    with winners sand losers.

    See those guys with loser caps on? That's us LOL
  16. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I noticed that AMD is offering the most CPU performance by far for far less money. I will personally "vote for them" by buying my next CPU from them. More than enough said.
  17. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    Were I starting build today I would be building an AMD machine. Just not out of affection, but pure economic self interest.

    With one caveat, has AMD learned to make NVIDIA drivers that can give me access to NVIDIA cards?

    Yet I feel compelled to say that at almost 73
    (you guys caught that right? I have a birthday coming up!!)

    I'm not as adventurous as I was in my baby days. I mention this as America has a rapidly aging population. That no doubt will age itself into my current position.

    And this may be AMD biggest hurdle or it might do longer term damage to Intel if they can stay ahead of Intel for the next 5 years. Nothing in this world spells happiness for corporations like an installed user base!

    Once I was happily using AMD and I was in overclocking heaven.
    Unlocks chips were my jam.

    But this can't work now. Intel has unlocked a significant numbers of chips, but that's not the problem really.
    Nobody overclocks any more.

    I'm completely ignorant as to how many even care about how fast their computer is.
    For most I think even a cheapo may already be fast enough.

    I can understand this.So neither of them can ever give me what I really want.
    What do I want?

    Well I just really miss being able to rub peoples noses with in my overclocks.

    People would beg me to share my secrets!
    But I had no secrets. I just screwed around until I got what everyone else had.

    I enjoyed spending significant amounts of time begging others for their secrets.

    And they were generous with me. I miss that part of my online life. You may have noticed I had a bit of trouble letting it go.":O}
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  18. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    Not just a CPU. You will need a new mother board, RAM and Video card. (are Intel and AMD Rams interchangeable?) Switching can add to your costs. But I usually only get one chip per motherboard before my MB is obsolete.So perhaps not by much...and probably still cheaper that staying with Intel.
  19. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You were the first religious overclocker that I ever met. I was inspired I was. Was so poor that I had to OC Celerons and learned how to do so on YOUR Our Old Site, long shall it reign! That was a lot of fun!

    Thank you Daniel! An early Happy Birthday to you!

    I'd buy new RAM, a Mainboard and a Video card if I was buying a new Intel processor, at least that's what I did in the past. AFAIK, RAM is RAM. But I'll need more and undoubtedly faster memory as well.

    I'm po'd that AMD STILL hasn't fixed their video driver problem. You'd think that they'd want to sell a new Vidcard along with that new processor. Dunno why they refuse to do this, are they nuts or what?
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  20. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    7,232
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:
    Remember we (Linux users) are still but a tiny fraction of the OS market... in short Intel can afford the largess.
    AMD may not have the free cash.

    P.S.

    You were worth the trouble and I really enjoyed passing on my little bit of wisdom.
    But the truth be told I never REALLY understood most of what I was doing.

    The only reason I (we) did as well as we did was that I was willing and able to experiment 6 to 12 hours a day until the nut was cracked.
    But we weren't playing "understand your computer"

    We were playing "Make it go faster cooler."

    And that my friend we most certainly did.

    One of the hardest of hard core overclockers I ever met was Surlyjoe and Joe was getting his best results on an overclocked unlocked Celly...I'm pretty sure you did quite well with yours.":O}

    I missed the Cellys and was stuck on an AMD board...Oh the irony! LOL
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019

Share This Page