Gentoo Desktop

Gizmo

Chief Site Administrator
Staff member
Moved to new thread from this old thread: https://www.gamersonlinux.com/forum/threads/linux-has-begun-its-assent.5196/

It's not even history - just a statement of fact. One of the great strengths of the GNU/Linux/Desktop/Application ensemble is the breadth and depth of choice and variety in all things. One of the great weaknesses of of the GNU/Linux/Desktop/Application ensemble is also the breadth and depth of choice and variety in all things.

Given that pretty much every other computer, phone, tablet, or device that people buy comes with a fully-configured OS and user interface preinstalled, and that those user interfaces actually have very limited degrees of freedom to customise, the wider public are simply not prepared for what awaits them if they start down the path of Linux: do you use a tiling window manager like TR favours, or something that looks more like Windows or MacOS, or something straight out of sci-fi like Hyprland... or recapture your lost youth with AmiWM. Do you like everything to be just a little clunky, like Enlightenment, or as basic as they come but fast (KDE Trinity, Mate, XCFE...)

Are you prepared to accept that if a program or device you want to use doesn't work out of the box, you have to put in a little effort? You can't just download a driver from the manufacturer's website and click "install" for hardware. For software, you can't just grab any other distro's version of the same software.

The whole reason why MacOS, Windows, iPhones and Android, and other closed shops do so well with users is that, in having a less free system, they're instead free from choice and effort. They know what they're getting - even if it's shit.
Are you still using Gentoo for your daily driver?
 
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Are you still using Gentoo for your daily driver?
Yeah, 'fraid so - after more than 20 years, I still find the quality of integration in binary distros to be sub-par. Better than Windows, but not the level of perfection that I can achieve with Gentoo.
 
I've been thinking about converting my desktop setup to Gentoo, just haven't had a chance to do it yet because there's just a LOT of tweaking involved.
 
It’s a LOT easier than it used to be: for both Gentoo laptops (one OpenRC, one systemd) I initially set no USE flags beyond the desktop profile, and included minimal entries in separate files below /etc/portage/package.use/ to allow all licences, set video card options, and nls support. Then I installed initially using a bindist mirror to minimise compilation during the initial setup phase. Only once I had a working desktop did I set march, cflags, and any global and package specific use flags I wanted. Whole process only took a shade longer than reinstalling Windows and all its drivers.

I don’t expect ever to have to do a clean install on these again - even profile changes aren’t the open heart surgery they used to be.

For comparison I have an ancient AMD APU based laptop that used to run OpenSuSE after a fashion, and my previous workhorse, Intel core i5 and NVIDIA (Fermi) dgpu that used to run Mint xfce as it was incapable of running anything else after about 2018. They’re only really booted anymore if for some reason I need an optical drive. The package distros try to hide too much from me, so that when there is the inevitable glitch, it takes forever to sort out.
 
Are you on systemd or openrc? I can't say I'm a fan of systemd, but I'm not religious about it.

I've got Gentoo servers, and I absolutely love the freedom they give me because I can get the build tuned to what I want. It's remarkably hard to get Redhat to operate in a minimalist environment.

Given its focus on corporate customers, and the security drives of most companies, you'd think it would be easier to minimize the attack surface in e.g. Redhat by not having to install a bunch of dependencies that don't have anything to do with what you're actually building the server for, but it's not. It's incredibly easy to prevent installing of a package that you know you don't use (e.g. Mandarin character sets) and suddenly discover that some other package you have installed has a built-in dependency on that package. While we can argue that the real issue there is a poorly packaged application (and it is), the fact remains.

Instead, most CorpSec seems to be focused on installing still more packages to bring in IDS, AV, and ACL to solve problems that shouldn't even be there if you didn't have to load a whole bunch of cruft that you don't actually need.
 
Are you on systemd or openrc? I can't say I'm a fan of systemd, but I'm not religious about it.
Both - I set up the old Raven Ridge based convertible laptop using systemd explicitly so that I could use iio-sensor-proxy to handle the accelerometer without having to try to liberate it from systemd myself (I subsequently found an overlay where someone had done exactly that, but too late).

It still seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem. Boot speed is no faster, and yes, enabling Plasma’s system monitor to display per process statistics in a similar format to Windows task manager is cute but “top” exists and does the same thing. Systemd service files are slightly easier to write than openrc scripts, but that’s something you’ll deal with maybe once in a system’s lifetime. Binary logging is a pain and you’ll still pipe logging output to syslog-ng. Systemd’s boot loader is functional but grub is still more flexible. Systemd’s network handler works but you’ll still use NetworkManager.

Even on openrc, though, you still end up with systemd components as dbus, udev, session handling and a few other components of desktop environments have been folded up into the cube…

…as ambivalent as I am on the subject, resistance is ultimately futile.
I've got Gentoo servers, and I absolutely love the freedom they give me because I can get the build tuned to what I want. It's remarkably hard to get Redhat to operate in a minimalist environment.
Desktop Gentoo is a nice experience, especially for a KDE Plasma user… I’ve always wanted Windows/Mac functionality without the cost, and a DE that gets out of my way and lets me work. Most of the packagers seem dead set on pushing Gnome and its derivatives, which I’ve always felt is the Tomy toy expression of a DE.
Given its focus on corporate customers, and the security drives of most companies, you'd think it would be easier to minimize the attack surface in e.g. Redhat by not having to install a bunch of dependencies that don't have anything to do with what you're actually building the server for, but it's not. It's incredibly easy to prevent installing of a package that you know you don't use (e.g. Mandarin character sets) and suddenly discover that some other package you have installed has a built-in dependency on that package. While we can argue that the real issue there is a poorly packaged application (and it is), the fact remains.
Because they’re selling worldwide, if they didn’t include the dependency on e.g. a random character set (presumably for a program that doesn’t properly support UTF) they’ll get a tickets from Far Eastern users complaining that they only see boxes. The need to be all things to all men does make the packaged distros a balance of compromises.

They (and giving credit, MS and Apple) do balance it pretty well… I’m just a cantankerous old git and want my suit made to measure.

Instead, most CorpSec seems to be focused on installing still more packages to bring in IDS, AV, and ACL to solve problems that shouldn't even be there if you didn't have to load a whole bunch of cruft that you don't actually need.
I recently supported our external information security audit - it is very much a box checking exercise. The external auditor is trained in the standards, but is not a cybersecurity expert.

It is simply easier to point to a product and say, “this fulfils that criterion” rather than to try to explain actual risk profiling and risk reduction measures. The former gets you a gold star, the latter a bunch of “observations” or “opportunities for improvement.” Or a non-conformity based on the assessor’s lack of understanding.

Thankfully my role isn’t IT focused - I only needed to prove that we don’t let any old numbskull on the project read commercially sensitive info… and there’s a product for that :rolling:
 
I've just spent about half a day trying to get Gentoo desktop working. I've no idea what I've done wrong, but I've got an interesting scenario where I'm booting with Nouveau instead of NVidia drivers. I'm coming up in what looks like runlevel 3 (or the systemd equivalent anyway) but I never get a login prompt, just the boot screen output and nothing else.

The worst part was that when I rebooted the system to try to get back to Mint, the system just booted back to Gentoo; my keyboard was completely dead and I had no way to get into the BIOS. I unplugged the keyboard from my KVM and plugged it directly into my machine and was able to get that working again, fortunately. Probably the act of unplugging the keyboard reset the keyboard and cleared whatever confusion had created the situation.

Guess I'll try again next weekend.
 
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