Kaitain: you have chosen a form that makes replying awkward for me. my feeling is that it won't sustain or add to our mutual understanding. why not take one point at a time as post 15 has your attention lets start there, I've reposed here to aid and ease the conversation. When I ribbed George of being a fan boy, George knows exactly why i did. ask him. but that's not in post 15. K. posted "Post #15 started all this off. Post #15. As I've already asked, what was the real purpose of post #15?" for a guy who wants to be right you sure are sloppy in ascribing things to me. suggestion. pick one thing. give me your view of it and allow me to respond. another stop trying to build a case against me and my posts. start trying to find the truth that lies between us. As a rule where there is no malice i try not to attack people, But their ideas. are fair game. You have yet to show that there is anything wrong with either my approach or my ideas. by the way i can't read Spanish. can you translate 君子欲讷于言而敏于行 please. your under the impression that post 15 started what ever this is. actually it didn't. there was at least one previous thread in which i was called a fanboy. but lets assume for the sake of my being RIGHT that it was. ( an unfunny) what wrong with post 15? oh my purpose, i have a half dozen unfunny responses, But i just learned I'm not funny. so the awful truth. i wanted to express my opinion.and i did, I did express my option, Sorry I didn't express your opinion, but that seemed a bit forward. You and I need to decide weather we wish to fight or come to a mutual understanding. as i have accused no one of anything other than being wrong about my posts motives understandings and have only defended my ideas Try to organize exactly what you are objecting to. one point at a time. so i may deal with your objections one point at a time. simple fact; i did not say what you said i said. you have not and cannot show that i have. it is not i who is on the offensive. i have accused no one, unless you think corporations are people to, of anything beyond being wrong about what i have said. If that's an accusation. so far you have utterly failed to produce a quote by me that says otherwise. instead you expand your complaints and they to remain unproven by the simple means of quoting me. my feeling is that your being unfair. you want to win and have little concern for what is true. Obviously you feel other wise. my suggestion that proof be found of your assertions in my posts may help us both come to a better understanding. this is where we began. can we do better?