1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Something To Think About

Discussion in 'Random Nonsense' started by Gizmo, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

    Jul 24, 2016
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:

    If we took an absolutely free, unregulated market, it might work something like this:

    A job needs doing that earns the business maybe $5/hour worked in revenue. The business will naturally want to maximise its profit for its shareholders, so will offer as little as it can get away with to its workers. A worker will demand as much as he can possibly get, so eventually will settle on a value for his services - say $2.50/hour. The worker will need to feed himself and clothe himself, which will set his spending power on basics such as food/shelter/warmth, which will inform the market as to the price point at which these products can settle, thus the rate they can afford to pay their own staff.

    The economy will then settle around a particular price point being the value of an unskilled worker's time. Unskilled workers really are interchangeable - as much as they're people, their only value to the company is to do simple tasks that literally anybody else could do. The bottom decile would be living precariously, hungry, cold, indebted and unwashed, as they have been for much of the last 5000 years of human history.

    In a happy turn of events, a left-leaning leader enters power and determines that conditions for the poorest are too severe (true), thus meaning they need more money. The left-leaning leader then determines that the worker shall be paid $8/hour as a minimum, regardless of status. Several events follow:

    First, the company now finds itself having to pay $8/hour for a role that's only worth $5/hour (actually, if you include overheads and taxes, it probably has to find $10/hour to break even).

    Second, all the people who were on better-than-minimum money (the $2.50 - $8 wage brackets) suddenly find themselves thrown back to minimum money.

    Third, the business operates first and foremost in the interests of its shareholders, who still want their cut. Therefore, the profit margin will be preserved.

    Fourth, the more skilled workers, with mobile, transferable skills must be protected to prevent them leaving to find better paid roles in other businesses, to prevent your business failing through loss of valuable skills.

    Fifth, to preserve profits for the shareholders without cutting salaries for the skilled and mobile workers, one of two things must happen: prices must rise, and costs must fall.
    - so prices rise generally
    - so the company looks to replace expensive workers with cheap machines, or cheaper workers in foreign lands

    Sixth, since prices must rise, the new basic cost of living rises from equivalent of $2.50/hour to equivalent of $8/hour. Meanwhile, unemployment has grown. Also, remember how all the people in the $2.50 - $8/hour bracket were thrown back onto minimum money? Their standard of living has actually declined. Meanwhile, the skilled and mobile workers use their mobility as a weapon and carve out a salary that works at the new price point. They benefit from rising asset prices far more than they're hurt by rising cost of basic goods, so it's actually in the middle-classes interest to support the minimum wage, as well as the actual rich.

    The problem with the minimum wage is that it takes one part of a socialist idea - wage control - without its complementary component - price control. If you drove up wages while banning consequent price rises, the company would be forced to pay for this by reductions in profit, senior and skilled salaries. Or fold. Implementing one without the other cannot and will not work.

    So lets look at the minimum wage's evil twin, which the UK absolutely adores, and me, as a middle-class voter obviously supports in full*: in-work benefits.

    Having seen the failure of the minimum wage to protect those workers who had been in the "better than minimum" bracket before the introduction of the minimum wage, the left-leaning government introduces a series of benefits to help mitigate their loss of living standard. So the low-paid worker can now obtain a refund on some of his tax, assistance with his housing costs, relief from child-raising costs and so forth. The low-paid worker is happy because he has a little more cash in his pocket. Woo yay. He's not half so happy as his employer, though, who doesn't have to consider raising his own rates of pay for better-than-minimum jobs, because the government is sponsoring his inadequate wages, while the worker himself has to spend the money, as significant savings cause his benefits to be cut. Cue further inflation, increased cost of basic goods, rising asset prices... my pension fund has never looked better!

    Fast forward 20 years from the introduction of the minimum wage, guess what? The bottom decile is still living precariously, hungry, cold, indebted and unwashed. Its effect, however, has been to systematically drag more people into the lowest income bracket, while transferring trillions of Pounds from potential earnings into asset values.

    Like I say, my pension fund has never looked better!

    * I'm not. I think they're an abomination.
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  2. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

    Jul 24, 2016
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    Just to add to the inevitable, "but it's all the fault of the thieving rich" - true to a certain extent. Government sponsorship of salaries does free up an awful lot of money, just sitting there unclaimed... since the shareholders didn't reject their remuneration packages, it must be fine, right? Anyway, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez notwithstanding, politics is an expensive industry to enter, and all your politicians are filthy, stinking rich. If they're not when they enter office, they certainly are by the time they leave. Similar, but less extreme in the UK.

    When was the last time you saw a rich person vote themselves poor?
  3. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

    Dec 17, 2012
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    Greenwater WA
    Home page:

    What is it we want to see done? It can't be a fair deal and a decent life for everyone.
    We simply aren't that incompetent. I would submit that we have exactly the cat fight for economic survival
    That the powerful would wish to see.

    They grew powerful or their ancestors did under a certain set of rules they then codified and poured holy water over. The echo's of their lies can still be heard. "Sorry brother it's gods will I should be rich while my neighbors starve."

    If your rich while your neighbors starve don't expect God to take the heat on that one.

    Your just another greedy son of a bitch trying to sneak into heaven.

    Greed is far more often the cause of excessive wealth than is any sort of virtue.

    So to bring about change for the better world we will need to clarify our intentions.

    If we as a people really want everyone to get a square deal, there is absolutely nothing that can stop us.
    It shall be ours.

    But if we can be persuaded that some are jut a bit better than the rest of us

    (The who to be determined later by race, religion, nation of origin)
    Then we can be divided.

    Divided the powerful prey upon us.

    So what we constantly see before us is human intention. The world made mad by human intention.

    The question for me is this. Can we after all the shit we were fed, after all the betrayals and lies we have committed upon one another can we as a people adopt a better intention toward one another.

    Can we forgive who and what we are to become better than who and what we are?
    I absolutely know that this is possible to every individual of normal constitution.

    But history shows those few who purify their intentions to have little effect on the mob mentality always just beneath the surface for Hitler to exploit.

    But we are living in a new wold where new things become possible. Even some old things become possible again.

    Nearly anyone with an idea can now communicate that idea.
    If it resonates with the people, the people WILL march on that Idea.

    So we have a mechanizum for change, Right now it's set to non change. As was intention of the powerful.

    But the unintended has a way of creeping in on us. It seem to happen most often when we are between intentions, a new intention can come into being.

    I know another way to say all of this!!
    Change or die.

    I want to thank you Kaitain for a very factual and well thought out post.
    At lest that was my intention":O}

    Gizmo your posts are always worth while and something we needed to fight about!! ":O}
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  4. cloasters

    cloasters Moderator

    Jul 3, 2013
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    Other's intelligence is extremely important!

Share This Page